The Language In Logics
2005.07.30 20:30

What features one language is not an word order but a word itself. There are tens of thousands of words -vocaburary in many languages though the number of word order is so limited. That said, there are some languages whose word order is closer to the logical order and others that does not follow the logical order.
For example, how about 'This is not a pen.' ?
In English we say 'This is not a pen', but how about Japanese, they say 'This a pen is not. ' Both in English and Japanese, 'not' negates 'is' positioned just before the word 'not', but believe me the word 'not' in English order also negates the following chunk( a loaf of words)- 'a pen' too. In both languages, 'this' exists so we don't have to negate the word 'this', but if we negate the chunk ' a pen ', we ought not to put the word 'not' after the word 'pen'. In the same reason, here we must say the most logical word order is 'This not is a pen.' The word 'not' negates 'is a pen', not only 'is' but also 'a pen'.
I must say the English word order is much closer to the logical word order as opposed to Japanese word order that is more closer to the most illogical word order.
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[The] chicken vs [the] egg(Score:2)
by daniil (775990) <evilbj8rn@hotma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on 2005.07.30 21:04 (#13201442) (Last Journal: 2005.10.01 6:31)
The question you forgot to ask is, does language base on logics, or is it the other way around? Another interesting question is, can there be only one 'logical order', or can there be many different ones?--Hell is not other people; it is yourself. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
Re:[The] chicken vs [the] egg(Score:1)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2005.07.30 21:52 (#13201557) (http://slashdot.org/~mercedo/journal/109855 Last Journal: 2005.09.27 11:22)
For Japanese people, European languages are much closer to each other and also by far closer to logical order. Certainly the Latin languages -Spanish, French, Italian seemed to be closer but I must say English, German, French are so different, for example, in Latin word order they usually put adjectives after the noun but in English adjectives are positioned before the noun, which is logical? I think it is in the case of Latin languages.
Another example, aside rom the apparent etymological similarities, when it comes to the word order German and English shows conspicuous differences. In German negation often comes last part of the sentences. Which is more logical? Apparently in English.
Languages vary as the times go by. By injection from another culture probably, what remains to be characteristic on one language is indeed ambiguous. One language differs from another in vocaburary, word order, what character it uses. Apart from the all the differences we have, all the languages express what we share on our underlying fact, thing, matter.
can there be only one 'logical order', or can there be many different ones?
I can't dare to say there's only one logical order, but certainly there's a logical order which is deeply based on the order of the underlying nature behind languages.
does language base on logics, or is it the other way around
The language ought to be based on logics as much as possible, otherwise it falls in just an expression of illogical emotions.--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters [ Parent ]
Re:[The] chicken vs [the] egg(Score:2)
by FidelCatsro (861135) <fidelcatsro.gmail@com> on 2005.07.31 4:55 (#13203564) (Last Journal: 2005.09.30 16:03)
Most languages are burden with legacy support and weird quirks ,we just need to scrap the lot and create a new fresh system .I propose a new alphabeta b d e f g h i j k l m n o p r s t u v w zc ,q ,x ,y can pretty much be replaced with k /s, kw , z/ek, i/eu respectivly--Non illigitamus carborundum, Graviora manent [ Parent ]
Re:[The] chicken vs [the] egg(Score:1)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2005.07.31 22:15 (#13207220) (http://slashdot.org/~mercedo/journal/109855 Last Journal: 2005.09.27 11:22)
That's a good idea.
Mainly liguists argue that the spelling ought to be kept since it is related to etymological meaning. For example 'light' 'right' both are spelt 'licht' 'richt' in German, so we can know many words are ascended from German words, so?
Many words are used without considering about their origin but used as just a sign, words can have meaning only in their sentences, not in their history.
Etymologically speaking, alphabet was much smaller than now. I think it's 22 originally. 'j' was derived from 'i' and there were no distinction between 'u' 'v' 'w' , 'c' was invented by Romans to express their sound, only later people who needed to express another phone that was unable to express in existing alphabet invented another alphabet one after another.
Now it's high time to rethink about how to spell enough to be distinguished from one another. But who do?--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters [ Parent ]
Re:[The] chicken vs [the] egg(Score:2)
by FidelCatsro (861135) <fidelcatsro.gmail@com> on 2005.07.31 22:28 (#13207273) (Last Journal: 2005.09.30 16:03)
Spelling needs to be done in universal phonetics , so it is insanely easy to remember after you understand simplified phonetics.Many linguists are a stuck in their ways, we have records and can still track the course of our language without complicating it for everyone . I can't remember the Greek alphabet anymore (haven't really gone over this stuff for years ) but i do believe it was around 20-22--Non illigitamus carborundum, Graviora manent [ Parent ]
I see no pen.(Score:1)
by myslashdotusername (903486) on 2005.07.30 21:46 (#13201542) (http://slashdot.org/~rmr Last Journal: 2005.09.08 12:24)
The pen does not exist. There is no pen. I am not a pen. You insensitive clod, that's no pen, it's my _____! Are you a man dreaming of being a pen, or a pen dreaming of being a man?--Everyone whom you love, loves no one else. You must be special.
Re:I see no pen.(Score:1)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2005.07.30 21:58 (#13201573) (http://slashdot.org/~mercedo/journal/109855 Last Journal: 2005.09.27 11:22)
Interesting. I have no word to return.--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters